Our First Time: The Premiere of Sex Outside
featuring listener voice submissions
It’s precisely because sex can be uncomfortable to talk about that we wanted to break the ice together as a community. That’s why a couple months back, we asked you all to send in voice memos answering a couple questions to practice talking about sex more openly and show that when it comes to feeling hesitant about these topics-- that you’re not alone.
In this episode, hear from over a dozen voices in various corners of the world share perspectives and stories answering these two questions:
What makes sex challenging to talk about, or has made it challenging to talk about in the past?
How have the outdoors or nature helped to open up these conversations for you, or to feel more connected to your sexuality, gender identity, sensuality, or your body?
Featured in this Episode:
Natasha Buffo, Marisa Huffman, Urvashi Parmar, Amber Johnson, Danee Voss, Gale Straub, Christina Shintani, Sierra Aceto, Janette Casolary, Alex Torquemada, Linda Keil, and two wonderful, anonymous voices.
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Hosted by Laura Borichevsky.
Cover artwork by Hailey Hirst.
Music by The Wild Wild, UTAH (featuring Gabby Jones), and Benjamin Dunn, licensed via MusicBed.
TRANSCRIPT
Note: This transcript was lightly edited and created using a transcription service. As such it may contain spelling errors.
Jackie Hughes (archival audio):
Well, I was just walking on the grass, getting ready to set the sprinkler. And lo and behold, I come upon these two ugly little creatures in the ground and they were mating.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
That's my mom. Her name is Jackie Hughes. And that squeaky, giggling voice-- that's me.
Jackie Hughes (archival audio):
So Laura and I decided to film the slugs in love... actually their snails.
Laura (as a child, archival audio):
Mom…
Jackie Hughes (archival audio):
Just hang on a minute. Look at this behavior!
Laura (as a child, archival audio):
[ giggling ]
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
It was springtime in the late 90’s, and while casually gardening one morning, my mom noticed two snails wrapped around each other in what she immediately identified as a sexual act. Not to miss out on an opportunity to teach her daughter about sex, she grabbed both me and our camcorder to create this earnest piece of home movie. Listening back now, as an adult and not a 7-year old in my childhood backyard, I try to put myself in my mother’s place. In some ways, I imagine that her own incredible instincts for teaching children brought us to this spot where we were scrunched over a patch of dirt as vouyers to tiny sex happening right outside the back door… but in other ways, I wonder if she knew the can of worms she was potentially opening up with her young daughter, whose inhibitions for talking about sex would likely be extremely low (while enthusiasm, extremely high), and if she felt ready for the unexpected nature of this conversation. Honestly, my guess is no. But that makes my appreciation for her in this particular moment all the more strong, as young me witnessed sex for the first time, announcing out loud the play by play of exactly what was taking place.
Laura (as a child, archival audio):
They’re stuck to each other!.... Well, they were.
Jackie Hughes (archival audio):
They were, we actually saw the male parts. He was-- they were definitely mating.
Laura (as a child, archival audio):
Oh… there’s his penis!
Jackie Hughes (archival audio):
[ pause, and awkward laughter ]
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
I’ll tell you right now-- it wasn’t this audio that inspired this podcast. But I would be lying if I didn’t say that when I listened to this home video recently, a lot of things clicked. Because I’ve always been interested in having conversations about sex, gender, and relationships-- and still, over time, like so many of us, those conversations have become more challenging to navigate out in the open, the perceived safety of a childhood backyard eroded over time by socialization, purity narratives, poorly crafted sex ed, shame, embarrassing moments, trauma… the list goes on.
I’m not alone in this. Not at all. In fact, I’m guessing that for the vast majority of you listening, *something* about sex is tough to talk about. It’s uncomfortable. It’s awkward. And it feels like it has to look or sound a certain way.
A lot of us escape to nature, in mental or physical ways, for comfort. The sound of a bubbling creek. The feeling of sand between our toes. Getting utterly drenched in sweat on a trail. Watching a lightning storm. Embracing the vastness of a desert landscape. Breathing in the fresh morning air and feeling the humidity on our skin. Touching a single flower petal and feeling its softness.
These experiences give us new perspectives. The trees absorb our secrets as we share personal stories with a friend. We take time to ourselves and reflect. We get inspiration from the way the outdoors behaves so organically. We become open to more of who we are.
While we can’t go back to a time before sex was tough to talk about, we do get to unlearn, heal, and take a different approach to it all. And if the outdoors is a space where we feel more comfortable, more liberated, and honestly-- more surrounded by sex than the somewhat sterile environments we’ve been taught to create for ourselves-- then why not lean on nature a little to open up conversations about sex?
After all, Jackie Hughes did it. And now, instead of screaming about snails in the backyard, her daughter is here. As your host. And as someone who wants to have these conversations with you-- honesty, curiosity, relief, empowerment-- and awkward feelings alike.
So, let’s dive in. I’m Laura Borichevsky. And this is Sex Outside.
Intro Voice 1:
Sex is an important part of us, or of really any species on earth.
Intro Voice 2:
For me, the outdoors really connect with sensuality.
Intro Voice 3:
I would spend hours exploring the waterfall, clambering up into the trees, and finally feeling more at home in my body.
Intro Voice 4:
When it comes to the outdoors and sex, I see the outdoors as being just an incredible facilitator in discussion and how to approach conversations that people really fear to have.
Intro Voice 5:
And on that particular day, I gave up my body inhibitions.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
It’s precisely because sex can be uncomfortable to talk about that we wanted to break the ice together as a community. That’s why a couple months back, we asked you all to send in voice memos answering a couple questions to practice talking about sex more openly and show that when it comes to feeling hesitant about these topics-- that you’re not alone.
And we like to get right to the point, which is why we wanted to know where folks feel like this discomfort comes to begin with. An anonymous, non-binary listener starts us off with some wise words about the vulnerability involved in having these conversations.
Anonymous Voice Submission 1:
So what makes sex challenging to talk about? I think it's expectations. Most of us have absorbed some sort of narrative about sex from the larger societal conversation.
And with that narrative comes expectations about ourselves and our partners: who we should be with how we're expected to act, what we're expected to do. We tend to place this stuff on ourselves and our partners. And I think that many of us worry about what our partner is expecting of us based on what we've been taught to expect. It's convoluted, but it kind of makes sense.
So I'm queer, and for a long time, especially before I came out, all I knew was the typical cis/het narrative that climax was always the goal. And if we didn't, then we'd failed. And I was surprised to learn that that wasn't exclusive to the cis/het community. My first female partner ascribed to that belief. And she made me feel guilty when she couldn't get me there that in turn affected my next relationship. When I placed that same expectation on myself for my partner. If I couldn't make her climax and I felt kind of mad about it. Eventually I learned that that wasn't the case, you know, that we had an amazing time with or without a climax, but that expectation made it hard to talk about that.
It made it hard to get past that until, you know, we've spent some time with it. And I think it also makes it hard to talk about because what if in opening that conversation, what if we push someone away by asking for something that wasn't expected? And what if we like to talk about sex in a very different way from the person we're with, it's a really vulnerable place to be in a very, very vulnerable conversation to have. And that's hard regardless of the topic, but especially with sex.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
So, expectations (and the fear of not meeting them, or others not being accepting of our own needs) can create a lot of vulnerability when it comes to talking about sex. And because of that, a lot of us haven’t talked about sex as much as maybe we could or want to… and you know what they say about practice making things perfect (or at least easier). But what happens when we *do* have a lot of experience talking about sex? Is it still challenging to address certain things, and if so-- why? In short-- will talking about sex *ever* truly get easier? Natasha Buffo, who’s joined us on the show previously in our short-form audio series called Nature Quickies, had some thoughts to add to this.
Natasha Buffo:
I'm somebody who's educated in human sexuality. I've talked about it a lot. I've written about it. I've done a humorous speech for Toastmasters in a very conservative room-- like, very conservative. And so I am comfortable talking about sex, but I also struggle with it. And so why is that? Why can I talk about it on a podcast to a bunch of strangers, but maybe I hesitate on those couple of conversations with my closest friends or with my partner. And I don't know if I necessarily have an answer. I think about how I was raised. I went to church, I went to youth group, but I also was raised in an open household where my mom was the first person I told when I had sex for the first time. So it doesn't seem like that's totally it.
Is it that I'm afraid of losing my partner or afraid of losing a friend based off of interests? Is it that I'm afraid of really your own interests? Like maybe you're just afraid of going outside of the box because really in any part of our life, that is a scary thing: to do what is not accepted by society. And so maybe it just goes to that because our box, when it comes to human sexuality, is so small and so constricted, and there are so many things that are considered immoral and wrong and taboo. And so maybe it's just that fear. So I think the less we've talked about it-- because when we grew up, when we were educated, it wasn't something that was talked about-- so it's not something we have practice with. It's not something we have experience with. We haven't had positive experiences to reinforce that this is okay, and this will lead to not just okay experiences, but really good experiences. And so until we have those positive reinforcements, it's scary. I'm curious to hear what other people say!
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
When we have people in our life we can talk to about sex, it gets easier over time to have these conversations-- especially the ones that feel important or where the stakes are higher. But it’s not always simple to find others we feel safe and comfortable discussing sex with. Another anonymous listener shares his experience in his own quest to find friends who will show up for these conversations.
Anonymous Voice Submission 2:
For me, that challenge in talking about sex is often finding people I can trust or feel like I can trust to talk about such an intimate topic. And also finding friends who are willing to talk about sex. It's not every day (or everybody) who's open to even talking about sex or intimacy-- and sort of strangely the friends I have who I talk about sex and intimacy with are mostly female. I really haven't found any male friends who've been open to talking about sex or who I trust to talk about sex with. It seems like they're not very comfortable with it, which is interesting. I kind of wish that I had more male friends. I could talk about sex, gender, identity, sexuality, and relationships with, but that's been something I haven't found yet in life.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
Friends are one facet of the folks who surround us and help shape our perceptions-- family is another. Marisa Huffman opens up about how family reactions early on in her life impacted her impression about communication around sex, and how she’s grown since then.
Marisa Huffman:
Sex is a really hard topic to discuss. In my experience, it's been really kind of pushed away-- like my family doesn't want to have that conversation with me. And it's uncomfortable, I could imagine, to broach that subject with your children-- honestly, at least. So what I always got from them is that “sex is for marriage”. And, “it's between two people who love each other”. And I think their thought process, you know, was genuine and they meant well from that. But it also like at the end of the day, didn't help me understand sex or understand relationships or understand like what that meant in a relationship. And I kind of had to figure that out on my own.
And the fact that I felt so kind of shamed when I did have sex outside of marriage was difficult. Like being told all those things and then having sex before you're married, when everyone's telling you that you shouldn't, and that if you do, it's like this big, bad thing and like you're a slut or you're a whore, or whatever they want to say. Like it's hard because they're not saying it to you because they don't know. But at the end of the day, like I know that they're talking about me. And so that made it hard to go to family or some friends and talk openly about it. And that was the main perspective that I got surrounding sex. I also thought that like, all my other friends thought that as well, so I didn't feel like I had anyone I could go to and talk openly about it.
And over time, I grew up and I realized that that's not really like the world's viewpoint necessarily, but that being the main one, that main opinion that I got made it really, really hard to talk openly about sex. And I think society also pushes that sex is, this big thing, but also like it's kind of hush-hush, like ,”everyone's having sex, but don't talk about it”. So that compounded with that view point I was raised with made it really hard for me personally, but I also feel like I've grown a lot because I’ve gotten to a point now where I have amazing friendships where we can talk openly about anything.
And it's easy to be vulnerable and honest about sex. And that's allowed me to have relationships where it's the same and I make it a point now for any relationship to have open communication surrounding sex. And I think it's vital. It allows you to be more vulnerable, which creates intimacy between you. And honestly, even if you're not in a relationship, you should still have that open and honest communication surrounding sex. It's important. And to be honest, it makes the sex a whole lot better. [ laughter ] So if you need a reason to try it, there you go.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
Like Marisa, this next voice submission from Urvashi Parmar touches on the nature of many family dynamics when it comes to *not* talking about sex. But Urvashi also compares the striking differences between her growing up experience at home, and how she as a solo female backpacker often is viewed while traveling, as well as the assumptions placed on her when it comes to sex.
Urvashi Parmar:
What makes sex challenging to talk about, or has made sex challenging to talk about in the past? Living in a society where talking about sex is still a taboo or seen as an act that is done only after marriage, it does get challenging to put forward my views. Moreover, as I'm a solo backpacker, I’m perceived as a person who is easy to ask for sex. And at times I have been asked that, “Oh, you must be an expert at it”. So in the past, and even now I am being judged when I openly talk about sex, that is why I, depending on the openness of a person regarding this topic, I really have to be mindful about how much depth I should get into.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
So clearly, it’s tough enough to navigate our own feelings, vulnerabilities, and perspectives when it comes to opening up about sex. But myths and false information are another set of factors that make it challenging to navigate these conversations. Listener Amber Johnson has some important thoughts to share on this, and opens up about why she believes it’s critical for us all to approach sex conversations with as much factual, accurate information as possible, even when we’re sharing our stories.
Amber Johnson:
I think that what makes talking about sex difficult is when neuroscience and physiology are ignored, or when the conversation doesn't rely on the scientific facts. Now, obviously our stories and our experiences are so important, but it just seems like the more I talk about healthy sexuality, the more I hear and see people living out kind of these lies about how we were created and what constitutes healthy sexuality. And I think that straying away from the neuroscience and straying away from the physiology breaks down communication between partners and among friends and in groups of friends. And so, yeah, I just think our stories are so important, but coming back to really how we were created and how our bodies interact and the sexual relationships that we're in, and being able to communicate truthfully about that is just so, so very important.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
Okay-- so we’ve heard a lot of different ways that sex is challenging to talk about. It’s isolation, pressure, expectations, fear, shame-- and we know there are so many more, too. There’s trauma. There’s confusion. There’s not exploring ourselves, and because of that-- not knowing how to express what we want.
We’re not sharing all of this to bum you out. Quite the opposite, actually. Because these feelings, while unique to each of us, are also a relatively universal set of feelings we might encounter. You’re not alone in not wanting to talk about sex, or being uncomfortable in doing so. But clearly-- we’re also not here to just leave it at that.
Which is what brings us to Danee Voss. Danee is currently in an environment that just *doesn’t* talk much about sex. But she also sees the ways that the outdoors directly helps with opening up these conversations-- for her, and for others she gets to connect with, too.
Danee Voss:
Sex is a really difficult topic to approach. I attend an all-women's Catholic institution, and those conversations aren't readily happening. So I find that the outdoors is a really accessible space to have difficult conversation and discuss things, not normally shared on a daily basis. And so when it comes to the outdoors and sex, I see the outdoors as being just an incredible facilitator in discussion and how to approach conversations that people really fear to have. I work as a summer camp counselor for the past four years, and I would love guiding trips because it would provide me with the opportunity to have really frank conversations with youth between the ages of 13 to 15, and talk about sex and talk about these experiences that aren't readily discussed, and being able to give them honest answers when asks and have a space for that in conversation, I find really important. I think the outdoors does an incredible job at facilitating these conversations also because it doesn't tell any secrets. Like, the trees don't share beyond that circle. And so it's a really easy place to leave those conversations behind and take what you learned from them, right? But leaving them there and not having to worry that other people are going to talk about it beyond the experience.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
Like Danee said, the outdoors can help opening up conversations and thoughts about sex and our bodies as a whole. So, why is this? Marisa Huffman continues her voice submission from earlier with a perspective on the way humans are connected to this earth and how inherently sex is folded into our most essential needs.
Marisa Huffman:
We’re all human, an we’re all of this earth, and I think sex is an important part of us, or really any species on earth. Our sex drive is what keeps the species alive and, and humans like humans have strong sex drives. And I think that's something that is not talked about a lot. And I think that looking at humans as creatures of this earth, it makes sense why being outside... it's almost like it's calming to us. It's home in a sense, at least that's how I feel about it. And I feel like that also gives me a lot of peace and it allows me to feel more like myself in all aspects. It does help me make connections to myself and my body and being outside makes me feel more accepting. You're not focused on what you look like, or who's looking at you, or if your hair looks good. I'm focused on like, getting to the next campsite on a backpacking trip or reaching the anchors on a rock climb, or reaching that next hilltop in the distance so I can take a break and he send snacks to continue to power my body, to reach the summit.
It's really easy to judge ourselves when we're surrounded by mirrors and buildings and ads, but separating yourself from that really gives you some sort of relief that is really hard to find anywhere else in my experience, anyway. Being outside in nature really gives me this gratitude for myself and for my body and for the strength that it takes to be out there doing what I'm doing.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
As Marisa mentioned, being outdoors can allow ourselves to focus more intently on our bodies and find reasons to feel more connected to how we are built and how we move. This next submission features a voice you might find familiar. Gale Straub, founder of She Explores and host of the She Explores podcast, has a beautiful personal story that expresses the way the outdoors can bring out our own love, appreciation, and protection over our own bodies.
Gale Straub:
34 years old, and my body still surprises me all the time. In puberty,. I traded hand-me-down bugle boy jeans for flares, skinned knees for mysterious bruises on my hips as my body took on a different weight. I actually still hit tables and doors and chairs with my hips all the time. In my Catholic high school, male teachers handed me warning slips when the plaid skirt I was required to wear was an inch too short-- and they had rulers to prove it. I’d get surprised again in my first office job, when I had to go home and change because the skirt around my hips was making another employee uncomfortable. I guess it's not so much that my body surprises me, as I've so often been surprised by the attention that my body garners. As a mostly heterosexual woman, I was taught by no one in particular that I should simultaneously crave and fear that attention.
And for all the craving and fear, I'm still caught off guard to feel like my body isn't totally mine, surprised that it's up for discussion. The way one of my dad's friends said I looked all grown up at my college graduation party. Women in my old office talking about what foods I chose to enjoy. When I dressed up for a networking event and a powerful man told me, in front of the whole table, that I didn't have a face for radio. I could keep going, share more sinister, subtle examples, but honestly, I'm exhausted just listening to myself.
A lot of women I know and respect enjoy wearing makeup in the back country. A winged cat eye: a wink just for them. For the most part, I embraced the opposite. A kind of neutrality. On a long backpacking trip, my hair gets super frizzy and greasy. I lather sunscreen on top of sunscreen. My outfit doesn't match, nor do my socks. (Actually. They never do, but that's another story.) I'm all function, no form. My body isn't a surprise to me out there. And I almost revel in its sexlessness. My pack settles on my hips. My legs carry me up mountains.
A couple of years ago, I went on a backpacking trip with a big group of strangers. After the overnight, we all shined ourselves up for dinner, and a male companion, startled, looked me up and down and said, he didn't recognize me off trail. Didn't know that I looked like that. “Good,” I thought. “That's the point.”
On most multi-day trips, I cling to the trail those last few miles. I'm not ready to give it up. The dirtiness, the anonymity, the layers and layers of sunscreen. But when it's finally time to step in the shower, I revel on that, too. I turn the heat all the way up on the water, the dirt an intoxicating exfoliant. I step out and towel myself off. I feel brand new. I'll wipe the fog off the mirror and take a photo of my naked body, my cheeks pink and my eyes bright. Sometimes I'll send that photo to my partner, but sometimes I'll just keep it for me: a reminder of a time when I was anything but caught off guard.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
Gale’s story paints a picture showing how our relationship to our bodies can be so deeply rooted in our connection to sex. And, like all relationships-- particularly the ones we have with ourselves-- it’s complex. In a voice submission, listener Christina Shintani shares on her own experiences with her body, and what kind of shift happens when she spends time outside. Just a head’s up that this memo has a brief mention of body dysmorphia.
Christina Shintani:
Generally I struggle with body dysmorphia and just generally not being happy when I look at myself in the mirror, there's always something wrong. But when I'm recreating outside, like backpacking, it's really the only time that I look at my body and this mental shift happens where all of a sudden my body's exactly what it's supposed to be doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing. And it feels like coming home to my body. It feels more natural than in any other environment.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
Our physical bodies are one facet of how we connect to who we are. Gender identity is another-- and it’s equally unique, complicated, and ever-evolving. This next voice submission from Sierra Aceto shares bits from her personal journey where gender, sexuality, and the outdoors come together.
Sierra Aceto:
Hi, my name is Sierra and I am a gender person. I use they/them and she/her pronouns. I am a relationship anarchist, and I am still learning how to tell this story.
When it really comes down to it, my body knew who I was and what I wanted long before I did. But growing up, I was so afraid of that reality. So afraid of being othered and not belonging that I chose to fade into the background, instead of being authentic about who I was. As much as I denied my queerness growing up, I also denied myself pleasure and joy in relationships. My anxiety and depression repeatedly convinced me that I was never enough. So I never stuck around long enough to be enough. I started to come out as queer in college, and a year later I started coming out as genderqueer. Soon after that, I dropped out of school. While these events are not necessarily a cause and effect, they're also in a way intricately linked. I had become so out of touch with my body by ignoring my mental health and my identity that I started having frequent panic attacks for months in the spring and summer of 2019.
I'm not sure how I would've survived without my support system, and without nature. That summer I returned to the woods I had played in as a kid, right behind my childhood home. I would spend hours, hours walking the trails, exploring the waterfall, clambering up into the trees and finally feeling more at home in my body. I started running again, something I never thought I would find enjoyment in again. And I cried. I cried a lot. I had held back so many tears, years of restriction and anguish.
Being in nature was the only place I really felt held. It was the only place I didn't have to perform. The forest listened, even when I felt like I couldn't speak, and in my most desperate state, it reunited me with my body and reminded me that there's so much power in being authentic. And-- it's also a hell of a lot more fun than hiding who I was.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
Similarly, our friend Janette Casolary (a voice you may have also heard on a Nature Quickie we aired last month) has some complementary thoughts about nature’s beautiful reminders for us in the way we don’t ever have to be one thing or fixed in one spot when it comes to our sexuality.
Janette Casolary:
I think there's something so beautiful and fluid about the outdoors that reminds me that I get to be forever changing and in motion and growing at all times as well as a beautiful opportunity when I am in nature to be fully present in my body.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
Speaking of water-- a handful of you had some powerful stories about how water specifically has aided in your own experiences with trusting your own body, finding healing, and reconnecting with yourself. Alex Torquemada starts off with her own experiences moving through trauma as she spends time on the river. Just a note for listeners that this submission makes mention of sexual assault.
Alex Torquemada:
What makes sex challenging to talk about? A lot of things. It's trauma, it's abuse, it's assault. It's being a rape survivor and still grappling with that. It, you know, will creep in and have these intrusive thoughts and completely shut me down. But I've done a lot of really important work and still continue to try and overcome all of that. And the outdoors has been the best way, honestly. It's given me my autonomy back. It's given me, you know, confidence in feeling good in my body and strong and powerful. And you know, it's watching myself transform and become this force of nature, and it's really helped in coming from a whitewater background. It takes a lot out of you, your body. And I don't think people always understand how much those are intertwined.
It's still definitely very hard to talk about. Even amongst groups like we make crass jokes, raft guides have no filter. And so topics about sex come up a lot and it's pretty comical. We joke. We jest. But it's a pretty wonderful open community that I've found in the outdoors has transformed and really changed how they accept people. You know, if you're out in nature, you're you, you're not being influenced by outside influence it. It's a chance for you to really just kind of tune in and figure out who you are, what you are, and reconnect.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
The water can bring about healing, and it can also encourage us to get in touch with our sensuality and our physical bodies. Urvashi Parmar shares a strong memory made in the water that stays with her even today.
Urvashi Parmar:
I would really like to share the story where I had been to this place that lies in the Northeast part of India. I had a rower. He belonged to a nearby village and my friend who accompanied me on the boat. After some time the rower halted the boat near the swimming area of the river. And he went away like 200 meters far. I was quite surprised as I assumed that he would be used to seeing people taking a dip in the river, especially women. The water was so beautiful that I felt like jumping in it, but at that moment I was hesitant and conscious about my body fat. But my friend, he encouraged me to just take off my clothes and jump in it. I still thought about it, but after like two or three minutes, I was just like, I have to do this. I felt so good as soon as I jumped in it and I floated in it. And on that particular day, I gave up my body inhibitions. So particular day, the water, nature, helped me realize that I was absolutely fine. And it helped me to fall in love with my body that I don't need to feel shy or embarrassed because I am a woman. I feel more grounded with myself, my gender, and even my body.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
Like Urvashi, this next story from Danee Voss is one of water and overcoming inhibitions and how a summer camp counselor routine has become a yearly ritual in her life.
Danee Voss:
I am reminded that the outdoors have liberated my body and have made me completely accepting of whatever its capacity is and being okay with it not meeting my expectations and accepting it where it is at. Some of my first experiences being naked and accepting my body were in outdoor spaces. I had the privilege of being around people who are completely accepting of themselves and their bodies. And through that, I felt very liberated in outdoor settings to be in control of my own.
I think a really great example of this is through my years, spent as a summer camp counselor, where in our off time, it wasn't beyond reasonable to go the skinny dip and do the things that you think about in seeing movies, but never actually meet expectations. And in late August, there's always a meteor shower. And during this meeting or a shower, we would go and swim out to the middle of the lake naked and just sit there and look up at the stars. And you're in this dark pool, looking up with your body fully exposed. And I just would always be overcome with a sense of gratefulness for that full year's worth of what my body has given me as well as what the next year will look like. And so it's kind of a tradition now to take that time, to appreciate my body every August, and really give thanks underneath the whole moon and meteor shower in the presence of other people and their bodies naked. And so that's really, what's been powerful for me.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
For a lot of backpackers and hikers, getting in the water is often a practical way to get clean-- and while you don’t have to get naked to hop into an alpine lake, going nude can feel liberating (and help get the job done a little more effectively, too). Shortly after her mom passed, Natasha Buffo went on a group backpacking trip on the Nüümü Poyo, also known as the John Muir Trail, and what unfolded during bathing times influenced Natasha’s perspective on getting naked in front of others, way out there in nature.
Natasha Buffo:
I went on the trip with three other people, and I noticed pretty shortly in that some of them were completely comfortable with just getting naked and hopping in the Alpine rivers and lakes. And that was the easiest way to stay clean, to take care of your muscles for coverage, to really revitalize after, you know, really exhausting days jumping in nice, cool water just feels so good. And without having to worry about your clothes drying off, because you don't take a lot of clothes on these trips. And so you get just get one outfit wet and, and switch to another one and you don't bring a bathing suit cause that's extra way. And so just going nude is the best technique and I'd been skating before. I never had an issue with it, but there was, there was something different about being on this trail and being so far away from regular society that felt incredibly comfortable and inviting and just seeing other people in my group just have no hesitation.
And this one person I barely knew at that point, I got to know really well on that trip, but you know, really a stranger just getting naked in front of me and having no issues and just embracing nature. And so I really followed suit it. It looked so lovely. And even though I was very uncomfortable with how my body looked out there, it's different because you're not trying to look sexy or not wearing the bikini that hopefully makes your body look “perfect”. You're getting in that water for very strategic and necessary reasons. And you're out in nature and it's just the trees and it's just the rocks and it's the water and it's the flowers and it's the mountains and it's your naked body. And really, your naked body is the most natural form of yourself in that environment. And it really opened up this new found love of swimming, nude and alpine lakes and rivers and doing it as often as possible.
And I, 100% feel the most sexy when I am nude in the water, out on the rocks with the mountains. Maybe it's because you don't see a mirror or maybe it's that there's not as much around you to judge or perceive your body from their perspective. It's just more simplified and more natural. And those are the times where I want to enjoy my sexuality alone or with a partner because that's when it feels the most real, the most relaxed and the most free, really.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
As Natasha mentioned, whether we’re alone or with a partner, the outdoors can bring out a side of us that connects to our sexuality because of our ability to get in touch with ourselves and eliminate all other distractions. This next anonymous submission dives into some of the sexual feelings he encounters outdoors and the ways spending time alone in nature can enhance his solo sex.
Anonymous Voice Submission 2 (continuation):
I think for me, the outdoors really connect with sensuality and my sense of self and sense of being in my body. As I've gotten older, the more time I spend outside, the more I exercise or am out in the elements, definitely the more present I feel. And that helps me not only with, for instance, anxiety, but also I feel much more in touch with my arousal. And so often when I'm alone in the wilderness, I will end up masturbating because I feel either aroused by the landscape or much more in touch with whatever latent arousal I have. And I feel much more free to express that part of my sexuality and to have sex with just myself in a place where nobody else is, and it's just me. There's nothing like hiking and taking a skinny dip in a cold alpine lake and just feeling the cold water all over your skin, and particularly like coming up over my chest and my nipples is what I think of. And just feeling very present with myself is what I get out of that experience. I think also just the outdoors are a place where I can find calm. And so that's probably why I get more aroused is I don't have anxiety or don't have this sort of wheels spinning in the back of my head.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
Solo travel can mean solo sex-- and it also doesn’t have to. Safe, consensual sex in a new environment or on a trip can be an exciting experience, like climber and traveler Linda Keil, who-- in our last submission of this episode-- shares with us the fond memories she has from a climbing trip in years prior, where she not only got to travel in a van solo but also had her first experience with penetrative sex.
Linda Keil:
The story that I want to talk about specifically is that of the climbing trip that I took when I was 20 and it was a six month climbing trip through Europe on my own in my small van was a very formative and varies special time for my sexual self I'd say, cause I get that my first sexual experiences on that trip. And I like never before and never after had sexual experiences with that many different people and that short amount of time. Yeah. And I feel like I'm very thankful for the time and I cannot think of a better way to explore a little bit and try yourself out for several reasons.
For one, I did something that I really liked, which is climbing and I was able to spend so much time outdoors in beautiful environments and I felt better in my body than I'd had for a long time before. So in that regard was just very special, a very great environment. And then also I've gotten very confident because I was traveling on my own. So I had to approach people to find climbing partners and to socialize, basically. So yeah, I was just very confident. It was very easy to talk to people. And then also, I mean, most of the people I met were also traveling around all of us were looking for contact and it was very easy to get in touch and then like potentially have that turn into something sexual for like a couple of nights. And then one of us would continue traveling on.
So yeah, I feel like it was just a very no pressure, beautiful environment to try out and explore a little bit. I'm thankful that I got to first discover my sexual self with other people in the climbing community. It's quite nice. And also like, it left me with a lot of great stories to tell-- like that of my first penetrative sex experience, which was like white van with tinted windows in a parking lot in Chamonix with a guy that I just met that day. It was a very beautiful experience and I wouldn't want to have it any other way. So yeah, I'm thankful to the outdoor community for collecting my first sexual experience in that environment.
Laura Borichevsky (narration):
Thank you so much to everyone who submitted stories and shared perspectives for this episode: Natasha Buffo, Marisa Huffman, Urvashi Parmar, Amber Johnson, Danee Voss, Gale Straub, Christina Shintani, Sierra Aceto, Janette Casolary, Alex Torquemada, Linda Keil, and our wonderful, anonymous voices. You can learn about each of these folks by clicking the links in our show notes, and follow us @sexoutsidepod for more action between episodes.
We’ll be airing full episodes of Sex Outside every other week on Thursdays, and don’t despair-- in the opposite weeks, you’ll get to hear brand new Nature Quickies, which are short, 5-minute dives into specific, practical topics about our bodies and the outdoors-- so stay tuned to catch a new one next Thursday. In the meantime, please consider supporting the show by leaving us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, making sure you’re subscribed, or by sharing this episode with a friend you think might like it.
We also have a pretty great merch shop online. There are shirts, stickers-- even underwear. To see what it’s all about, head over at sexoutsidepodcast.com/shop.
Music is by the Wild Wild, UTAH (featuring Gabby Jones), and Benjamin Dunn.
I’m Laura Borichevsky. Thanks for joining us. Until next time!
Jackie Hughes (archival audio):
Okay. You're filming now.
Laura (as a child, archival audio):
So here they are! Both of them. One was foaming just a minute ago.
Jackie Hughes (archival audio):
Now, can you see him? Here he comes-- he's going to look into the camera. That's the female. Here's the male look what he's doing.
Laura (as a child, archival audio):
He’s bubbling!
Jackie Hughes (archival audio):
He’s blowing bubbles! Laura, keep the camera still. Wow, I've never seen them do that before. He’s sticking his eye out of the top of the bubble. You still have them on camera? Are you sure?
Laura (as a child, archival audio):
Sure.
Jackie Hughes (archival audio):
Okay. You're having a whole hard time holding that still, aren't you? Ew, she's crawling on my thumb! Here. [ takes camera ] What do you think of all this?
Laura (as a child, archival audio):
Aw, I like it.