Uprooting Gender Binaries

featuring activist, small business consultant, & outdoorsperson Nick Albritton

brought to you by Janji

When it comes to gender binaries, there’s a lot of digging to do to get to the root of our problems. And while there are a lot of ways to uproot a plant-- it really depends on how much it’s grown, how tightly its roots are wound, how far its system has spread and embedded its tendrils into the ground-- that determines how challenging it is to get it out.

Nick Albritton, a transgender man and outdoorsperson, spends a good deal of time unpacking specific ways he’s seen gender binaries show up all throughout his life, and the damage they can do-- especially to transgender folks and those who are gender nonbinary. He also shares about the way nature has quite literally saved his life and helped give him the space he needs to dig deeper into what it means to truly be himself.

Featured in this Episode:

Nick Albritton

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Hosted by Laura Borichevsky.
Cover artwork by Hailey Hirst.
Music by The Wild Wild and UTAH, licensed via MusicBed.

TRANSCRIPT

Note: This transcript was lightly edited and created using a transcription service. As such it may contain spelling errors.

Before we jump in, we wanted to let you know that this episode discusses loss of parent, experiences navigating trauma as a transgender person, and a brief mention of contemplation of suicide.

Laura Borichevsky (narration): 

Hey all, Laura here. And I try not to do this often but if you’re invested in seeing Sex Outside grow in support of what’s most important to you, I’m asking for a quick favor. We just launched our first-ever community survey for anyone who enjoys Sex Outside content, and it would help us help *you* if you took 5 minutes to complete it after tuning into this episode. As a thank you for those who complete it, we’ll send you a 10% off code to our sticker shop and enter you for the chance to win a big Sex Outside prize pack with all the goodies-- including some new ones we haven’t released into the wild yet.

To take the survey, click the link in our show notes or tap the announcement bar at sexoutsidepodcast.com-- and thanks so much for your time and feedback! We’re excited to keep growing with you.

Nick Albritton: 

I have always been in a love affair with nature.

Laura Borichevsky (narration): 

It only takes a few seconds of audio to understand that Nick Albritton loves the outdoors-- and as you’ll hear, he always has. That’s partially because, even as a child, he was in awe of the beauty stepping outside can bring-- and it’s also because he has often turned to these natural spaces as places of solace from observation, harmful systems, and trauma.

Nick Albritton: 

Really the tethers of my identity are that, you know, I'm a trans man that was raised in the rural South. I have had to navigate, you know, my experience being just outside of the normal for a long time. And I'm at this place now in my life where I just want to connect with people with an open heart that are brilliant and that are trying to have the conversations that matter in the world.

Laura Borichevsky (narration): 

Having meaningful conversations includes getting to the root of our problems. And while there are a lot of ways to uproot a plant-- it really depends on how much it’s grown, how tightly its roots are wound, how far its system has spread and embedded its tendrils into the ground-- that determines how challenging it is to get it out.

Nick spends a good deal of time unpacking specific ways he’s seen gender binaries show up all throughout his life, and the damage they can do-- especially to transgender folks and those who are gender nonbinary. And while I know so many of us-- nearly all of us-- have likely grown up with heteronormative gender roles and expectations placed upon us, it doesn’t mean we have to continue to reinforce them in ourselves or others.

There are a lot of things we can individually and collectively do to break down these binaries. And it starts by listening to folks in the trans community, and taking action to get to the root of everything-- the heart of gender binaries.

So, let’s get started. There’s a lot of digging to do. I’m Laura Borichevsky, and this is Sex Outside.

Nick Albritton: 

We are pulling the root out, and we are saying to the root this is an issue and this will help everyone be free.

Laura Borichevsky (narration): 

As Nick mentioned at the start of everything, he grew up in rural Texas-- and it’s one of many aspects of his childhood that was particularly formative.

Nick Albritton: 

I was raised in a 350-person town in Texas called Paradise, which is a bit of an oxymoron in my opinion [ laugher ]. I was raised on a farm by a single father. So, you know, my mom passed when I was four years old. We were in a car accident together. And so I was kind of in this space as a four year old in the world of navigating really deep grief and leaning on a parent who was navigating really deep grief. And I was really at a place where I was confused about gender. Like I think I recognized for the first time, because somebody told me right about my body. It was my sister said something about my chest whenever I was probably 10 or 11 years old about needing to put on a shirt. And that was the moment that I really realized, “Oh, like I'm a girl.”

And it never hit me in that way, that there were two distinct sexes in people's mind and that I was one of them. And I, and I knew that I did not fit that. You know, so as I was like, really internalizing this message of very clearly binary wise here is where you are. I internalized that I was, you know, wrong or that I was doing something wrong because what felt really natural and freeing and expansive and joyful to me was really not inside societal expectations of what being a girl or being a woman was in the world. And then there's just the piece of like inferred messages in the South. And like a religious community are really staunch, right? Like I'm talking on Friday night, everybody goes to the football game and all of the girls are wearing cheerleading outfits and all the boys are wearing jerseys. And I was really not in either of those worlds as a kid. And I knew it and other people knew it too. Like they could see it. So there was this underlying treatment of trying to reaffirm how I was supposed to be or who I was supposed to be by people around me. And there was this layer of it that was centered in knowing I had lost my mom at a young age. And this idea that I just didn't have a role model, which was so insidious and harmful to my young body.

Laura Borichevsky: 

Yeah. I imagine that, yeah, there is that piece where folks were probably making very harmful assumptions. Like you said about, and we're going to talk more about gender performance, but it's like gender is something that we have to learn instead of something that we discover for ourselves. And so it's like, “Oh, you didn't learn that. And so this is why you're different” and that's, that is so harmful.

Nick Albritton: 

Yeah.


Laura Borichevsky: 

I know that another piece of you living out in rural Texas was being able to spend time outside. And I'm excited to hear about this piece too, because this is like such a beautiful part of your childhood-- from my perspective as someone who gets to hear your story, like how the outdoors helped you to open up to learning more about yourself and what that experience was like, amid everything else going on in your growing up experience.

Nick Albritton: 

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Like what a dichotomy it was to like be in society was like this really kind of gnarly experience for me to be in community. But then to be in nature was like the most freeing. Like it's the piece of my childhood that I am most grateful for. It literally saved my life. So we had, you know, a 70 acre farm and the back part of our property had a creek. And then just on the other side of the creek, we could just drop the fence and wander through hundreds of undeveloped acres. So literally sun up to sundown as a kid, I was like a barefoot child in my underwear running around our property, doing random stuff, climbing trees, jumping off a hay bales.

There's this distinct memory I have of like I had climbed up on the back of a horse that we had and the horse was just grazing. It didn't have, you know, a bridle on it. There was no saddle. I was just laying on its back and I was laying down and like the Texas sun was warming us both. and, and this animal is just like casually doing its thing with me, just hanging out on its back. So I was just so in tune with nature and also so alone at such a young age in the wild that I think I just developed this really solid core confidence in the outdoors. Like it was like this knowing of like, “Oh, I know this land and this land knows me.” You know, it saved me to be free of gaze, right? Of, of like people witnessing me there and I could just be myself-- and I was pretty feral, but exceptionally connected to the wild, just knowing every piece of our land and being able to like swim in the pond with our horses and then ride them into this undeveloped land and just ride for miles with no objective. There was nowhere to be, there was nothing to do. We were just existing.

Laura Borichevsky: 

Yeah. Which is kind of the opposite of performance, right? Like you were able to literally just be.

Nick Albritton: 

Yeah. I mean, I think as we get into this conversation about like gender and how we perform gender, it's just so clear whenever you're somewhere where you know that there are no expectations that, you know, we all have scripts, whether we realize it or not, we're like operating on these messages and pressures and expectations that are given to us by it could be anything. It could be our family, our friends, our communities, media, our own internalized concept of what we're trying to live up to in the world. But it's also oppression, right? It's like, how do we stay safe? And I think a lot about how gender performance really butts up against safety inside of like a cis, heteronormative, patriarchal society, right? And for me, you know, I realized that I was both, not a girl, but expected to be one at a really young age.

And so, you know, I performed, I dressed up. I tried, I never fit. I felt so lost because like I just wasn't seen, you know, I couldn't be seen and I really lost my joy trying to become what I thought I was supposed to be. And I think everyone, to some extent, wants to salvage social connection, right? And that means that sometimes we have to move in ways or that we're pressured to move in ways that are not at all centered in, in what we desire or what we want. And so we're moving in ways that aren't in authenticity with who we are, you know, can we ever actually be seen there, whether we know on a conscious level or unconscious level that people don't know us, that's really scary. And it, and I think sometimes our need for belonging just outweighs our need for authenticity. And it's detrimental to our wellbeing.

Laura Borichevsky: 

Yeah. Extremely. It's interesting to hear you talk about it in that way too. Like as oppression. Because I think a lot of folks don't think about it as oppression. Like it's, you know, a part of how we've learned things and people brush it off very often as like, “Oh, this is just how we've learned things.” And it's like, well, yeah, but we have to stop and think about the impacts that the things that we've been taught have on everybody, and to hear it phrased as oppression-- yeah. It's very true.

Nick Albritton: 

And I, you know, I think there's this piece of it right, where it's like, authenticity is a gift. And I think when we're talking about performing gender, for some people, it doesn't take much away to just do the thing, right? They're like, “Oh, I'll just do the thing. It's fine.” You know, but I think it reflecting on is that really who you are, is that really what you want to do. And it's cool if it is like you have a choice and how you express yourself, but the question is, have you really freed yourself enough to know that you have a choice, right? Like have you really reflected on, and do you really have you embodied and do, you know, on a cellular level that you have a choice and how you move in the world and it does not have to be inside the rigidity of these roles that we've been given in society.

Laura Borichevsky: 

All of this reminds me of a piece of our conversation that we had when we were on the phone last time. And you said: why do trans people make cis folks so uncomfortable? And like what that means? And there is obviously there's a lot to be said for why that can be in a lot of it is also rooted in some really horrendous biases and things that are not healthy and have been really, really, really harmful to the trans community and the community in general. But the other thing that you added to that conversation, I thought was really interesting around that freedom to be able to be yourself or to explore what your gender sexuality, your entire identity as a person can look like outside of these binaries.

Nick Albritton: 

Totally. I'm so glad you brought that quote back, like why to trans folks makes cis folks so uncomfortable? And for me, I'm like, I think about it a lot because it really perplexes me. And from my lens, it's really necessary for me to understand that because it, it keeps me safe, right? Like understanding the folks that are in a place of power that could deny me access at any given moment. It's really important for me to keep them comfortable, right? So like really understanding what it is and why that exists. And I think that trans folks and gender non binary folks really force cis people to examine in what ways they've either like never found themselves or settled for less than their expansiveness, you know, trans folks and gender non-binary folks have bucked this patterning and ways of being that I think cis folks can find safety and privilege within, but they're also held down and boxed in by, you know, like it's not good for us to think that if we don't behave in a way that society has told us we're supposed to, that we're not normal.

Like, that's really weird. Like, that's strange, you know, if you're not quiet and accommodating, then you're not a real woman. If you're not like dating men or taking care of men, you're not a real woman. And like, if you're a guy, if you're not super stoic and you're not like, if you're feeling your feelings or if you're…  if you don't know how to fix a car or like all of that stuff, I'm like, there's no gender guarantee that you're going to be better or any more of those things. It's so silly when we really think about: what are the messages that are there and how reduction areas are they? And like a question I love to ask is just like, think about all of the beautiful people that, you know, specifically think of like cis people and think about how many of them actually live up to that, like carbon copy expectation of what constitutes a man and what constitutes a woman like no one does.

So does it exist, right? Like why is it there and what is it a function of? You know? So getting back to this, like, why do we scare people? Why do we make people uncomfortable? I think like we're an invitation and we bring up a lot of fear and anger and resentment and ignorance because if folks have never really felt allowed to like, learn who they are and be reflective of what they want and who they want to be and how they want to behave. And if they too have experienced harm because they don't fit inside of this carbon copy of who they're supposed to be, this predetermined box, then they have like all of this pain body that's brought up by watching somebody who's like, yeah, F that like, no, thank you. I'm not that I'm going to be over here. And they're like, in reflection to it, they're like, well, if you're that, then who am I, if you can be that, who am I that, like, I feel like folks are forcing the space of either reflect or reject. And oftentimes they reject when they don't realize that trans folks, gender, non binary folks, we are literally paving the way to get us out of the mess of like cis, heteronormative, patriarchy that especially cis women are under the boot of, too.

Laura Borichevsky: 

Yeah, I mean, I appreciate you framing it that way, because I think it's so accurate that while there are privileges within this system that depends on a heteronormative gender binary structure, the privileges are far outweighed by the amount of oppression that is happening for everybody.

Nick Albritton: 

Absolutely.

Laura Borichevsky: 

Yeah. So it it's, uh, it's interesting to think about that because I think there are roles that we all can play in helping to break that down and looking to, like you said, trans folks and gender non-binary folks is like one of the biggest ways that we can continue to learn and amplify and help to break down some of these really harmful systems.

Nick Albritton: 

Yeah. I'm just, I'm, I'm thinking of how to the core and how systemic this, like, what does the patterning rely on? And I'm like, it relies on language. It relies on presentation. It relies on expectations. It relies on that script. And so when trans folks are challenging things like pronouns, when trans folks are challenging things like gender neutral language, it can be looked at as this accommodation for trans people. But I'm like, it's also to the core of what we're uprooting. Like we are pulling the root out and we are saying to the root, this is an issue. And this language will help everyone be free. I really wish that folks could understand on a deeper, more intrinsic level that like we're doing the work that needs to be done. And that really falling behind and specifically in this conversation around gender expectations and performance and like gender oppression, it's like, there's so much there that trans folks to exist, we have had to unlearn, like we're not free of it. We don't just get a hall pass. We're not like, “wow, I'm a beautiful trans person that has not had to unlearn anything harmful.” Like I was full of it. Like I was indoctrinated to when I started my transition, I thought I was going from one to the other. And the more years I have in finding myself and learning and learning from other beautiful trans people, the more I realize I never went from one thing to the other. I've always been one thing. And I have always been me and I don't have to perform at all. I'm not one or the other. I've always been who I am. And like, there's a way in which I enjoy being perceived by society where I feel most seen. It just happens to align with what society calls a man. But we're unlearning too. And as we unlearn, we gain wisdom and that wisdom can help everyone.

Laura Borichevsky: 

I think that was really, really well said. And it also, you know, what you were saying too, has like a very, a very natural lead into talking about how gender and gender identity and our bodies have been greatly pathologized within the medical and mental systems in this country and in other places as well. And it's interesting because I last weekend was taking a course on gender and the evolution of gender and how things are still... you know, everything's evolving all the time and when it comes to gender, we're still developing different language around like, and sexuality around like, you know, how we're referring to different types of relationships. We have to one another and to our bodies. But one thing that got mentioned in that course was the history of the pathology behind how we speak about trans folks and how in some countries it's continuing to change for the better. And it's an, you know, the equivalent of DSMs in some European countries, it's no longer pathologized, but in the United States that currently still is under the DSM-V as gender identity disorder. And I know when we had our conversation last time you brought that up and you were like, “I have so much to say on that.” And I'm curious to hear, if you have any thoughts you would like to share about that right now, because I think it's a good thing for people to reflect on

Nick Albritton: 

This goes back to like the story of me realizing I was trans. Like I had never heard about trans men at all in the South. Like it never once came up in anything that I did in any class I took. And that's just how, you know, staunchly, conservative the space where I was raised was like trans people legitimately did not exist in a visible way where I was. And because of that, like by the time I got to college, I was just literally drowning. Like I could not figure out why I felt like something was wrong with me. So I was going to therapy. And I was asking all of these questions and I'll never forget one night I was like researching what I felt. I'm like, “why do I feel like this?” Why do I not feel like, you know, like literally the language I had was like, “I don't feel like a girl. I don't feel comfortable in my body. Like, I don't know if I want to be this.” And it, it was to the point where I was like, do I even want to be here? Do I want to be like, to be frank-- alive? Because I was so far from being able to be me. And the term that came up in the search bar was “gender identity disorder”. Like that was the first time I saw my experience. And then from there I discovered trans people and then the real trilogy started. So I'm in the middle of like North Texas. I remember I talked to my therapist about it. They had never heard about it. But then in our next session, they had done some research. I talked to the doctor that was on my college campus, who legitimately just refused to help me.

They did not feel comfortable. And they were like, “no.” Um, and so I worked with my therapist and I found community through YouTube. That was the only inlet I had was community knowledge, right? Like that's where the trans community is. Like I still, to this day in Seattle, Washington, I have to ask my community where safe doctors are. And so we think the Pacific Northwest is so evolved. And in a lot of ways they've tried, like I can request certain pronouns now and people might ask, but I still have to ask for safe doctors from my community. So I find a community clinic that's two and a half hours away just to start hormones. I have no insurance coverage as a broke college student. I have to be in therapy and air quotes, living as the gender I want to be for at least six months.

And a therapist will then write me a letter. And with that therapist letter, I can go to this clinic. I can pay out of pocket, which the clinic had an eight month wait list at the time. So if you can imagine six months and then eight months, we're at a year and a half now almost. And then I can finally get a prescription to testosterone, which I have to pay for out of pocket. And it was this, you know, when we're talking about the term, like gender identity disorder, I'm like disorder from what first off gender identity disorder, I'm like disorder? Because I'm not behaving the way others do, because what my genitalia does not make me behave a certain way? What about cis people that don't follow gender norms? Like did they get this disorder label too?

You know, my experience was so medicalized and I was constantly painted as having to prove that I was not mentally unwell while enduring systemic oppression. That is such a horrible place to put a human being where it's like, okay, interact with all these medical systems while you're oppressed to prove you're not unwell-- when oppression makes you unwell. You're poor. You're super uncomfortable in your body. You are actually unsafe in the South. Like the first time I got screamed out of a bathroom, I was not even on testosterone yet. And it was because somebody assumed I was in the wrong bathroom, which is so strange. Like just assume people are in the right place, right? We're just trying to pee. So I'm just like “gender identity disorder”... normal doesn't exist. It just doesn't. Like, you can't draw a line in the sand and say, this is how genders behave because you go to any other culture and it's different. You go to a different continent, it's different. You go to a different household, it's different, there is no baseline. And so how can we give a disorder to somebody who is at a place where they're just trying to access for me at that time safely? And like, I just wanted to blend in for once because it was very visually in between worlds, you know? And I think that's speaks to the privilege that I have now as somebody who doesn't get clocked as trans often or gender non-binary, there are people that still live in this liminal space every single day. And the impacts on them as individuals is substantial.

Laura Borichevsky: 

Yeah. Well and to your point, too, having to continually prove to a system that you fit into these certain boxes so that you might be able to move more towards, you know, gender affirmation in some regard, whatever that means [to the individual]. But then every step of the way, not just, you know, in the medical system or like, you know, with identification or anything like that, but then, you know, in a bathroom, someone confronting you about that as well. Like, I don't know how someone would navigate that very well. It sounds extremely overwhelming and very lonely, to be honest.

Nick Albritton: 

Totally. I mean, it was, and I, you know, I'm glad you brought up like identification because just that piece of it, right? Like I think there's this way in which most people could just go to a court and be like, “I want to change my name.” And they be like, “why?” And they’ll be like, “cause I want to.” And then they would just change it. But for trans folks, you know, we have to have like in the South, particularly like trans folks who do not pass to a judge’s eye will not get approved. And the judge has the right to do that in the South for a name change. And it's wild because it's like, what is a male name? What is a female name? You know, when you really get into the gray area of all of this, it's like, and this is the point that I've seen made.

And I love it because it's true, like legislation and gender norms and this concept of like, here's what a man looks like. Here's what a woman looks like. This is a boy named, this is girl named whatever, all of these binaries-- cis people don't fit in them too, right? Like I think about tall women, I think about short men. I'm like, you can't nail something down because the language is always evolving. These things are always evolving. And so it opens up the door, not just to staunch discrimination against trans folks. It's also like opens a door to discrimination against people. Like we see Olympic athletes that are having forced hormone tests done on them and being refused to be allowed to play in sports because of their natural hormone composition, because it doesn't fall within what science has deemed as being female, which is pretty wild when you think about it.

Laura Borichevsky: 

I appreciate you bringing all of that up and mentioning the sports as well, since that's something that's been huge in legislation right now, like in Arkansas and, and elsewhere, It's important for everyone to keep an eye on that too, because to our point earlier, like what hurts trans people hurts everybody, you know, at the end of the day. And not just because it's an injustice on us as a people. There's that. And not just because obviously we should have compassion for one another and there's that. But the system is hurting everybody when it's hurting trans people. So I appreciate you mentioning that.

Nick Albritton: 

Yes. Yeah. I think a lot of the legislation that's happening right now, I'm like, this is a funny story. So I was on Facebook-- dangerous place for somebody who came from a small town and is now trans-- like I have some people who I'm connected to that are like from my high school experience. And you know, when I was a kid starting in third grade, you know, I started playing football with the boys, like on the boys team. It was probably one of the most joyful experiences of my childhood because it felt so affirming to who I was. It was like, I knew in first grade that I wanted to play football air quotes, “like my brother”, you know? And so I played football on the boys team all the way through my ninth grade year. And I ended up getting injured, like the last game of my ninth grade year.

But I also like started offense defense kickoff. I like was one of the strongest people on my team. And I'm like watching these conversations about like trans kids playing in sports unfolding. And like, so many people are like relying on this rhetoric that like, you know, boys are so much stronger and I'm like, “okay, Chad, like, I literally beat you out of a starting spot in football with no hormones in my system. So if you could not... like, like that's just untrue, like all of your parents were upset because you didn't start. And I did as a girl. So if you could not, that would be great.”

[ laughter]

Laura Borichevsky: 

That is a funny story. And also, yeah, like so true. And there's so many kids who are held back from different sports, like any which way, right. Because they're like, Oh, that's a “boys sport”, or that's a “girl's sport”. Or, you know, we have these teams this way so that, you know, because we separate them by what we perceive gender to be. And it doesn't allow people to maybe play where they want to be, or maybe where they're going to be most challenged or where it's like most fun for everybody. Um, yeah. Sorry, Chad.

[ laughter]

Yeah, I guess my only other question on the side of like navigating the medical system and the mental health system, and I don't know if there's anything else that you would like to talk about in this regard, but I know one of the questions I had was for folks who might be listening, who are currently or starting to, or considering navigating the systems, because maybe they are going to go through some type of a transition or, you know, gender affirming surgeries, changing their pronouns or their name or anything like that as a trans individual. Do you have any advice or other things that you wish you had been told when you first started this process that you'd like to share?

Nick Albritton: 

Gosh, yeah. Find community. It doesn't even have to be in your neighborhood. There are robust communities online. I think one of the most beautiful aspects about the trans community and the gender non-binary community is that like we deeply understand that we need each other and I would not have access to the resources I did without community members inviting me in helping me educating me. And I would also say lean towards folks who can help and hold you. I definitely have had, you know, cis allies who have advocated for me. And it really makes a difference when that labor is not on me. When there are people who will go with me to the appointment, who will, you know, let the doctor know, and do that education and just be in that space with me. And the last piece is just like, and this is so, so important. Remember, and give yourself space to remember and recognize that the way the system is constructed is not about your inherent worth. It's a product of gatekeeping in the medical community. And it's just so important to remember that there's nothing wrong with us. We are not unwell. We are not ill. We are beautiful and brilliant, and we deserve care. We deserve to be cared for.

Laura Borichevsky (narration): 

We'll be back with more conversation from Nick after this. 

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Nick Albritton: 

Yes, my love affair with the mountains.

Laura Borichevsky (narration): 

As we mentioned at the start of this episode through everything, Nick has always found some sense of peace when he spends time outside, which has made his relationship with the outdoors so deeply beautiful, profound, and at times a source of personal healing.

Nick Albritton: 

Obviously I had this foundation in nature, but I don't think I could fully appreciate it because I didn't really have a contrast until I went to college. And I just wasn't accessing nature at all for a lot of different reasons. Primarily college was a lot, but I was nearing graduation. And at this point I was at a place where I knew I was trans. I was using he/him pronouns. I was using my new name, Nick-- and I decided I wanted to buy myself a trip for my graduation, with the gym on my college campus that were doing this outdoor recreation thing. And it was amazing. It was like a trip to Alaska. It was a four day kayaking trip, a four day backpacking trip. And like all the expenses and equipment were provided. And it was pretty affordable too. I'm stoked that that was even an option for me.

So I bought the trip. I like made payments on it for like six months. And I went to Alaska and I saw mountains for the first time. And I was like, “what in the cluck? Like, this is so cool.” Like I remember being like, I just felt like it was a postcard and it was going to just fall down. So I get to Alaska, we’re gearing up. I have been chronically uncomfortable in my body because I'm like in this very liminal space with gender, people don't know where to place me, you know? So I'm just really moving as, as like non-binary in the world. And we go out to the space called Blackstone Bay. So we get chartered out there and we get dropped off with these tandem kayaks. And we're doing this like paddle back into the town of Woodier. And that's like probably a 30 mile paddle or so. And we stop off at this cove and camp and you know, it was morning and I was sitting on this rock, I just found this perfect like concave space. And it was like laying on this rock that was jutting out over the cove. And I was like in a short sleeve shirt and May in Alaska. And it was beautiful and there were mountains in the distance. And I just realized that like I was resting because the earth is not perceiving me. It's not witnessing me. It's not classifying me. It's just holding me. And it was like a piece of my soul came back into my body in that moment. And I have been using nature as medicine ever since I keep revolving around this thought of how nature is one gigantic ecosystem and everything in it is about collaboration and surrender. Whereas like society is this construct of power and competition. And it's like a big group project that is just not going well. And so, how do we come back to remembering that like with each other, we need to be both in deep collaboration and surrender.

Laura Borichevsky: 

Ah, that is so beautiful. Thanks for sharing that story. It makes me happy to hear you say the word rest too. You're like, “Oh. And it dawned on me that I was resting.” It reminds me a lot too, of what you had been sharing about your childhood experiences outdoors too. And like just being able to be and not be perceived or witnessed, but just to be held outside and to just rest. Yes. What has your journey been like in developing a relationship to your own body, especially since transitioning into the body that you currently have?

Nick Albritton: 

Geez. How long do we have? [ laughter ] Uh, no, I, I think like this journey with my body has been this undulating mess that is just like constantly orbiting back to this is my one body, you know, like this is it. And I think, you know, going through like college and realize for years having lost my own joy and not realizing why I felt like a foreigner in my own body, you know, was this acute relationship that was painful. And, and then like realizing I could be more expansive than that. And I could dream bigger than that. And I could actually affirm myself and have a form that was, I think the thing that's missing most in the conversation about trans folks and non binary folks is like gender euphoria. Like I'm like, I don't know if that's something that's like on cis folks’ radar, but like, you know, the moment where you feel like a bad-ass and you're like, “Yes, that is me. I am that. Look at that donk.” Whatever it may be like where you're like, just super into yourself and you're like this, like I feel so me and I feel so free and sexy and desirable. I'm like, that's what trans folks are trying to get, right? Like it's what not, I mean, for me, so getting there has been this like long journey, but I think with that has come this realization that like, we are also so much more right than our bodies. Our vessels are holding a soul and they're always going to be fallible and finite, you know, I think of, you know, this dance with my body is like both been a war zone and my greatest refuge. It is both of the things. And I have space to hold both of those things.

Laura Borichevsky: 

Yeah. Since you mentioned gender euphoria. Yeah. I, at least not that I speak on behalf of all cis people, but I, at least as a cis person had not been introduced to that term until last weekend, as I've been pursuing my advanced study in sex education. And we spent a little bit of time talking about gender euphoria and I was like, “why are we not talking about this more? It's good for everybody!”

Nick Albritton: 

Yes. I mean, and like whatever beautiful spectrum of light and colors come through and your euphoric agender, it's like what radical resiliency is that in this world that says bodies are supposed to be this way. And typically it is small. Typically they are straight cut. They are controlled. They are all of these things. And I'm like, give me like rolls and stretch marks and like beautiful hair. And like all of the things that come with having a body specifically, like just bringing this back to like talking about how people hold perceptions of bodies and specifically how that impacts trans people, you know, it's so wild. So my father and I have this complicated relationship around my transition and a piece of that, you know, I remember coming out to him and it was like this huge buildup. And he was like, “what are you about to tell me right now?”

Because I was very uncomfortable. And his first question to me was, “do you have to change your name?” And his second question to me was “who are you going to date?” Like the first two thoughts was like, “do you have to change your name?” And, and the next one was, “who's going to love you?” Who's going to want you, right? And like that feeling is so terrifying to people because we are not in people's desire, maps, trans bodies deserve to be desired. We deserve love. We deserve fantasies. We deserve being craved. And I think the thing that really holds society back is not about us and our bodies, but more so the contrast of who will I be in relationship to this body?

Like, we don't realize how scripted we are and with lovers and with sex. And we think like, okay, like X, Y, and Z, we're on this escalator to penetrative sex. And like trans bodies, like break that, like, you genuinely don't know what you're going to get. And I think a piece of that is like really bringing that back to like, you don't know what you're going to get with a cyst body. Either. The real reflection that needs to happen is like, bodies are an experience. They are sensory. There is skin and goosebumps and hard places and soft places and hair and smells. And like what makes desire happen is how people find each other over and over and over again. And we can be so rigid and how we approach sex that we're missing out on all the good stuff, like the communication and the like playfulness and the curiosity. And it's like, there is no world in which somebody says, “Oh, I'm just not into that type of body” that that is not rooted in transphobia and fear.

Because you never know what type of body you're going to get. And you also never know how a body is going to change. Even cis bodies, even “healthy bodies”. And also you don't like every cyst body that there is either, right? Like, it's like, even if you're like, this is the type of body I like you don't like all of those bodies there's gaps there, right? In that, thinking in that logic. And like, when I look at, you know, am I deserving of love? Am I deserving of desire? Just like real talk as trans folk say like “T for T” I'm like trans for trans all day, every day. Like we are some of the most expansive, clear, connected lovers because we understand that it's about the communication and the reciprocity that we have with the people that we're interacting with. We have to talk about our bodies. We cannot rely on assumptions about how we move, what we like, how our bodies move. We have to engage in the deeper levels of connecting with people. And I think that's like a beautiful gift that trans folks and non-binary folks bring to the world.

Laura Borichevsky: 

Absolutely. And everything that you just talked about too, in terms of like, what makes people really good lovers, right? And like the communication and really being tuned into not only yourself, but your partner or partners. And so many of us, if we got sex education in public school, we're not taught that we were taught the script, right? And it was very heteronormative. And it's honestly very boring. [ laughter ]

Nick Albritton: 

Yeah. Or just like don't do it ever. [ laughter ]

Laura Borichevsky: 

Exactly. Also don't do it. Yeah. But I think that it has set so many people up for failure. Not only because all of us start feeding into these very transphobic narratives right away, because that's what we were taught and we just believe it and keep going. But then also with whoever we have in our lives as partners, or, you know, including ourselves as like a sexual partner that we have, we just aren't focusing on anything, but what that script says, and it's so harmful and bored.

Nick Albritton: 

Yeah. Just my experience is like, there's this strange space that I inhabit where I'm like, I don't always want to be like the aggressor. I don't always want to be like, that is such a script for folks that are perceived as male or that identify as been, it's like, we're supposed to be the aggressor we're supposed to lean in. We're supposed to drive the sex. We're supposed to want sex all the time… which I do not like, please God, no, like sometimes I need to just chill because I too am a human and I don't always want to just like-- I don't always want to fuck, you know. But the way that I have felt my own anxiety in that of trying to live into this expectation of what I'm supposed to do specifically, now that I transitioned when that was never put on me before.

It was such a strange thing, trying to dive into dating and then like seeing all these expectations of being in relationships where I was like, not reciprocated. And I was like, I feel unloved, right? Like, I feel loved because I'm not getting the like touch and the slowness and the aggression from my partner that I desire as an individualistic human being who has my own mix of like how I want to move in relationship with people. And I'm lucky now I'm in a beautiful partnership. And I found like really amazing love and like really great chemistry where like, we're always expanding and we're like realizing more about ourselves and like trying to equalize the power dynamic that's assumed in relationships that can look like a man and a woman or a mask and thin, however, like the binary, that's just not real. So how do we really dive into individualizing our own desires and really getting specific, not about form and structure, but about feelings and expansiveness and what brings us into a space of like novelty and newness and like, you know, like all the good stuff.

Laura Borichevsky: 

Well, exactly. And it's interesting to hear you talk about the binary and how it plays out and your perspective on it individually, because I know one of the other things that we were considering talking about is toxic masculinity and everything you just said, like in terms of how people “show up as a man” is also like, so rooted in toxic masculinity too.

Nick Albritton: 

Absolutely. I feel like I had this like outsider knowledge about toxic masculinity and the ways I was positioned in it. And then like all of a sudden I was like, in it, like cis men are trying to connect with me over toxic. And I'm like, no, like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like we are not the same way. Like, hold on. Like, I don't want to play this game, but it really is like having been raised in this identity of being perceived as a woman being raised as a woman and like, conceptually, just trying to be forced into this rigidity right. Of receptivity and accommodation. And also just not being good at it at all. Like I just was, and I feel like most even cis women aren't and it's like so hard to try to even grapple with what that does that concept of gross.

No one likes it, but now, right. Like there's this formula for toxic masculinity. It's both toxic, but it's also fragile. And so when I think of being trans: perfect storm for fragility, I was literally told for 20 years, and to this day, that I'm not a “real man”. And there are some people who will never, ever, ever, ever see me as a man. And I'm like, if you're talking about something that could challenge masculinity, I'm like, there it is, right? Like talk about a recipe for fragility. And also just trying to be the model man. So people would accept me, well, if I do this and I do this and I do this and I do this, then maybe people will see me. There's this like competition. There's like competitive aggression to try to get people's approval and confirmation. But I think most importantly, you know, masculinity has been taught that like power only exists if you have someone to have power over. And I think about that a lot in my experiences like dating women and really trying to position myself and like juxtaposition to them and like how I was looking at them and identity as this thing that was affirming me. But it doesn't work like that. And like, that's the heart of so much dysfunction in power dynamics and in toxicity and fragile masculinity.

Laura Borichevsky: 

Yeah. It speaks to a lot of that unlearning too, that you spoke to, like everyone has unlearning to do in this process.

Nick Albritton: 

Yeah. Absolutely necessary that, like, I think folks getting really clear on who they are and who they want to be and why they want to be that with permission to not be the things that people have told them they have to be. And that that's okay. And that there's beautiful power and freedom there as I've relaxed more into my identity, like I'm not constantly trying to clock like, is this feminine? Is this masculine? Is this, that? Am I too melodic in how I talk, which was a real thing for me the first couple of years of my transition, like I was trying to talk slower and be really monotone. And I was like, “I give up, like, I don't care.” I think a lot about how, like I don't have to inherit all of the wounds of masculinity just because I transitioned.

And that's something that sticks with me a lot of like, why am I trying to fit into this concept that we all know is broken and is very clearly not serving men. I look at, you know, the male community, cis male communities specifically, and I'm just like it's unwell. And I think that cis men recognizing that grappling with that, being at a loss about that, grieving about it, finding community in it, real community, real connections with other cis men who can hold them and cry with them and be with them as they reclaim their like soft emotional bodies that need affirmation and touch and space to fail and space to be held and not just relying on cis women to do that. But instead looking outwards at the community and the tethers that they have around them and growing into a space of deeper connection with others and who they want to be, the world needs cis men to heal.

And I'm often grateful that I was not raised as a cis male in the South because I was not traumatized in that particular way to disconnect from my emotional body. Like I didn't have to do that. And there's no reason I should try to inherit that now and said, I want to do the work of recognizing all the privileges that are given to me by society. Now that I pass air quotes pass as a man in the world also like often assume cis man in the world. And it's like, I want to do the work of recognizing those privileges and making space for people. But think there's this reckoning that needs to happen around assessment or just human beings. And they need all of the care and community that, you know, cis women and trans folks and human beings need. They've been harmed by our society too, but it's nobody's work to heal them.

It's their job to build the resilient community that can heal and be nurturing and care for others and the world. Like I can't fathom a world where cis men are nurturing and kind and caring and how powerful and beautiful the world could be. If everyone came together around that concept and, you know, trans folks and cis women and people who are in the work of trying to create this better world, if they were met there in totality and wholeness by cismen and what would be possible, I'm like that is something I can hardly dream.

Laura Borichevsky (narration): 

As Nick said, it's a world. We might not be able to dream today, but it's when we can and need to work diligently to create. And in doing so, Nick wanted to make sure you know that there are so many folks to learn from, follow and amplify in this process.

Nick Albritton: 

We are on the precipice of really foundational what is going to be difficult but necessary work to call each other in and to be in collective liberation with one another. And I've had the privilege of learning from so, so many beautiful non-binary brown, Black, Indigenous folks that have been leading this work for so long now. And I just hope that as we continue to learn with each other and to grow with each other, that we can do that in right relationship. And oftentimes what that means is recognizing how the norm keeps us safe in our privilege and how it's necessary to follow the lead of the people who have developed genius to survive these systems and structures and have dreamt of new ways of being that will nourish their spirit, because that is how we will free all of us.

Laura Borichevsky (narration): 

Thank you so much to Nick Albritton for his time, openness, and heart in this conversation and beyond. I highly recommend taking a look at some of Nick’s writing and resources over on his Instagram, @boyrevelry. 

Before you go, don’t forget to take the 5-minute Sex Outside community survey and be entered to win a Sex Outside prize pack, plus receive a 10% discount code for the Sex Outside sticker shop. Click the link in our show notes or tap the announcement bar at sexoutsidepodcast.com.

You can catch full episodes of Sex Outside every other week on Thursdays, and on the opposite weeks, you can hear brand new Nature Quickies, which are short, 5-minute dives into specific, practical topics about our bodies and the outdoors-- so stay tuned to catch a new one next Thursday. In the meantime, please consider supporting the show by leaving us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, making sure you’re subscribed, or by sharing this episode with a friend you think might like it.

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Music is by the Wild Wild and UTAH. 
I’m Laura Borichevsky. Thanks for joining us. Until next time!

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